Fang-Face writes “Now, here’s an interesting little site about librarians dealing with patron foibles:
DISPATCHES FROM A PUBLIC LIBRARIAN. In which our hero has to put up with the antics of patrons and the public and whatever else might wander into a public library.“
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so funny yet so true.
One thing I did note however was in #2:
Using a video camera in a city building without prior consent from the city is not allowed…
It seems like if you want to videotape the inside of a public building you should be able to, after all it is a public building. I can understand some exceptions such as hospitals, police stations where it might compromise an investigation, or jails where it might compromise security, but if I want to videotape the library or the water department where I live I should have the right to do so.
One excuse
The Chicago Transit authority doesn’t let you film/photograph their stations. Their excuse had to do with possible terrorists “casing” the different stations.
While its a ‘public’ building, I think the administrators still have the ability to limit the kinds of behaviors that take place there. Kind of like saying you need to turn you cellphone off, or not look at pr0n on the macines.
You can still film anyone you want on the street, like water utility workers, Postal carriers, even Librarians, just not inside the building.
Re:so funny yet so true.
The (presumably fictional) example scenario my old supervisor used to explain why we were to restrict anyone without explicit permission to take photos or video in library buildings was something along the lines of “What happens if there’s a battered spouse reading Divorce for Dummies (or maybe they’re not even reading; if they’ve just been ordered not to leave the house) in the background of a photograph that makes the front page?”
More broadly stated, I would say that its basis is the presumption that the privacy of people in public facilities is protected (i.e. it’s not really anyone’s business what they’re doing there).
Now, that’s mostly speculation; I can’t say if that’s really the primary motivation for those sorts of policies, but it is one explanation that I’ve heard.
Incidentally, there was one occasion in which a small, neighborhood newspaper showed up to my branch library without permission to photograph a library program. They knew they were supposed to have permission, they had taken photos (with permission) at many, many of our prior events, and the NY Times, Post, Daily News, and Newsday all routinely followed the rule (the library pretty much gave permission to anyone who asked). It was after hours, so the PR office was closed, so there was nobody who had the authority to give them permission, so we told them that the reporter could write an account of the program, but that the photographer would not be allowed to take photographs. Naturally, the next week, there was a scathing editorial about how the library (and the branch manager in particular) was crushing the freedom of the press, and was furthermore ungrateful to the newspaper in question for its great service to the library over the years. What do you think was the result of the editorial? Why, the library system adminstrators apologized and forced the branch manager to apologize personally, as well. For enforcing the library’s stated policy. And occurances like that, folks, are the reasons why not very many people stay at my old library system.
Re:so funny yet so true.
You make a very good point about why photos without permission aren’t allowed which makes me wonder about my own library. We routinely have newspaper photographers take photos to accompany news stories. They must get permission… from library staff. We never notify patrons who sign up for a program that it will be photographed. They will hopefully notice the huge news camera setup and leave the program if they object to being in the photo, but we probably shouldn’t count on that. Perhaps the library at which I work should consider your battered spouse example!
Don’t extend the role of the library
Has the library now become a spouse abuse shelter? Does the library have a mission to keep its usage (as opposed to records) secret from the general public? Is it appropriate to take pictures at a city council meeting? What about at a public park? What about inside a concession stand at a public park?
Either it is a public building or it is not.
Either there is a need for secrecy or privacy that outweighs the public’s right to know what goes on in their tax funded public buildings or there is not.
As I noted before, there are indeed public buildings such as the police station, hospital, or jail where photography could be restricted, but the library does not conduct criminal investigations, the library does not care for the sick, the library does not house prisoners, and the library is not a battered women’s shelter. To extend the extraordinary rules of restricted public access (including photography) to the library changes its core mission.
What is your library doing that it wants to do in secret?
That flies in the face of what librarians and libraries stand for, free and open access to information.
N.B. I am not opposed to shelters, although I wish they were not needed. I am indeed opposed to domestic battery. However the library is not a shelter even though it may be used as such.
Re:Don’t extend the role of the library
But if access to information is free and open, part of that does involve privacy. I can think of plenty of books (say, a book on how to cope with a medical condition) that I might want to get from the library… but I don’t really want someone to be able to photograph me with the book. It’s just, frankly, none of anyone else’s business that I use the library or that I attend a certain program. Certainly I have no problem with someone videoing the building, or any patron that has given permission. But no person should be filmed or photoed anywhere if they have not agreed to it.
Re:Don’t extend the role of the library
I don’t particularly want to be photographed in the library, or the post office, or the water department either (unless I have time to shave and put on a tie).
If I don’t want to be photographed with a book about Irritable Bowel Syndrome, or HIV or anything else I could simply check it out. There are certainly laws and regulations that proscribe recording what people check out, and a no photographs at the circulation desk policy seems a legitimate compromise of the right to privacy of one’s library records and the public’s right to take pictures of the library.
Since we can’t prohibit photography entirely at the library why do we feel it necessary to restrict it to those with prior permission. In fact since the only method mentioned in this discussion for acquiring permission to photograph is to ask the management of the library it seems that there is no formal application procedure, no specific policy for approving or denying permission and no formal method to appeal a denial.
It may not be popular, it may not please the users, but as librarians aren’t we used to controversey based on public access?
If I can motivate myself, after dinner I’ll check for case law on this.
Geez I need a life
I searched ~200 cases in LexisNexis out of the 754 it returned on my most fruitful search when I combined the terms photography and prohibited. (other search terms included library and public property but did not provide relevant results.)
There was nothing exactly on point about prohibition of photography in libraries. However several cases could shed light on the question.
Paulsen v. Lehman [ 839 F. Supp 147] relates to giving out religious leaflets in a State Park. Permits were required for that action. Permits were also required for (commercial) photography among other things. There was an application form that was required from persons wishing to engage in any of the activities that required permits. There was no formal process to evaluate requests, there was no formal policy regarding the approval of permits – in fact ad hoc decisions based on various supervisors impression of the advisability of the action governed the issuance of the permits. There was no formal policy for denying the permits or for notifying applicants that the permit had been denied (it noted on the application to call 5 days before the date of the activity if the permit had not be received) nor was there a formal method to appeal the decision to deny the permit.
The Court found the permitting process and thus the need for permits to photograph, distribute leaflets, or any other activity covered by the permit regulations unconstitutional.
In Sanders v. American Broadcasting Corp a TV reported visited telephone ‘psychics’ and surreptitiously video and audio recorded their conversation. The Court found that one has a reasonable expectation of privacy in one’s workplace, but that in contrast one does not have that same right in public. [52 Cal App 4th 543]
In Houchins v. KQED [ 438 US 1] TV reporters wanted to see part of a county jail. The court found that the reporters were not entitled to any access beyond what was provided to the general public. The held however that the reporters and the general public could photograph, videotape or otherwise record public facilities. They did note that reporters have no right to information from the general public or in this particular case any employees or detainees in the jail, that is the public cannot be compelled to talk to or even be photographed if they do not wish to do so.
In Channel 10 v. Gunnarson the Court held that TV reporters can photograph anything to which the public has access, however the photography cannot interfere with police process. In this case the TV videographer was standing next to a member of the public at the scene of a robbery the police confiscated his camera. That was held by the Court to be an unlawful seizure and prior restraint. [337 F Supp 634]
In Connell v. Hudson [ 733 F Supp 465] a citizen was photographing the scene of a traffic accident from outside the police perimeter. He was threatened with arrest if he continued to photograph the scene. The Court noted in its opinion that it is permissible to photograph where in public areas as long as it does not interfere with the actions of police or emergency personnel. The Court noted that there is “A Constitutional right not to be interfered with.�
I have also found a website that was topical.
Of course I don’t practice law over here so that was an educational exercise not legal research. But I think you can photograph people (or anything else) in the library as long as you don’t compromise library records. I think if challenged the policies would be found unenforceable.