ALA intros “Radical, Militant Librarian” buttons

Daniel says:

Re:When serving patrons responsibly is radical
I’m willing to believe that you are one of the few to have read through USAPA. You strike me as a very thorough and prepared person. I also acknowledge that many people on both sides of USAPA have not. For that matter, I conjecture that most Congressmembers did not read USAPA before it passed.

In regard to your statement:

Since the implementation of the Act we have not experienced another terrorist attack, unlike London, Madrid, Indonesia, and many other places. Secondly the Act was certainly more above board than the previous administration’s Echalon which spied on everyone and yet failed to produce useful intelligence.

I’d like to point out that we had no instances of successful Islamic terror attacks on US soil from 1993-2001. Counting the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing as a major terror event, we had no major terror events between 1995 and 2001, even though we had thwarted terror attacks in Seattle and Los Angeles. During that period we had no USAPA, but we did have terrorists foreign and domestic trying to kill Americans and yet no successful attacks for six years. If you only include international terrorism, we had no attacks for eight years. So I don’t think USAPA itself can be used to explain the lack of attacks for four years and a few months.

You note that Indonesia had a terror attack. Indonesia has much less freedom than we do, as noted by its 2004 State Department Human Rights report:

The law requires judicial warrants for searches except for cases involving subversion, economic crimes, and corruption. The law also provides for searches without warrants when circumstances are “urgent and compelling.” Security officials occasionally broke into homes and offices. The authorities occasionally spied on individuals and their residences and listened in on telephone calls. There were reports that the Government occasionally infringed upon privacy rights of migrant workers, particularly women, returning from abroad.

So, abridging freedom is no guarantee of safety from terror attacks. Given that, I’d rather have higher levels of privacy.

Finally, as far as I know Echalon is an urban legend whose existence has never been admitted by the government. If it existed and if it truly vacuumed up all communications from US citizens, then the program should be declassified and the people responsible for it punished. As I’ve mentioned before, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a Democrat or Republican assaulting our liberty.

Daniel says:

Agreement on airport
I’m with you on your comments about airports. It unquestionably affects more Americans than USAPA. But I still want the FBI to keep their mitts of reading lists without probable cause and a specific suspect. There is simply too much history of unnecessary investigations and harrassment. Did they really need to compile a 142 page dossier on Lucille Ball?

As far as UNDHR, while I’m critical of where our country is going, I’ll never imply that the US is in the bottom half of human rights in this world. One of my tasks as a citizen is to ensure we never get there.

But you are far more familar with UNDHR than I am. What is Article 12 anyway?

If I haven’t said so for awhile, I really appreciate being able to discuss issues with someone who can remain civil with me even when they strongly disagree.