It looks like the big Baby Bells are now doing the work of the NSA! What gives them the right to turn over our records of who we call?
NSA has records of billions of U.S. phone calls | Tech News on ZDNet
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, including calls made within the United States, according to reports.USA Today said Thursday that the NSA, which is in charge of a domestic spying program, has been building up the database using records provided by three major phone companies–AT&T, Verizon Communications and BellSouth–but that the program “does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations.”
No problem with it
If they are not listening to or recording calls they are probable just looking at phone numbers. If a terrorist is found to be using cell phone number (123)333-3333 and someone places a call to that number wouldn’t it be worthwhile to then get a search warrant and start listening to the calls and see why person X is calling the terrorist cell phone at (123)333-3333?
Or we could take no action to look for terrorist and just write off any victims of terrorist attacks as the cost of not having the government not look at the phone numbers people call.
What do you suggest? What should the government be doing to track terrorist? If you were in charge what would you do? It is east to complain it is often more difficult to do better.
Re:No problem with it
Your talk of search warrants is rather off base, considering in this case there weren’t any, and the government has those billions of records without cause. I would reject the dichotomy that unless companies provide private data to the government they are deciding to “just write off any victims of terrorist attacks.” A better argument would be that once we become a police state, terrorism has successfully destroyed our democracy. Hardly as glamorous as claiming people who won’t sacrifice privacy are writing of the dead, but it rings truer to me.
It’s not really that the government is collecting all this data, but how often they abuse those powers once they have it. To keep things in check, we have things like due process and the Fourth Amendment.
As you are posting as “Anonymous Patron,” you will likely concede that some people just don’t want their lives to be an open book or public record to be exploited and used for the wrong reasons. As a rhetorical question, would you mind if I revealed your name for all to see, or do you have something to hide? 😮
BFD
Big freaking deal, so the NSA has super duper caller ID. They know what numbers I dialed. Maybe they can figure out who keeps dialing my number in the middle of the night and then hanging up when they realize they got the wrong number becsuse they’re drunk. No Steviwie or whatever you muttered is not here.
They are not listening to conversations, just getting lists of numbers. If you are that concerend change your number.
More importantly why are they concerned about the NSA and not the telcos? About a year ago a car like mine was used in a crime. The local police stopped me and even though I didn’t match the description of the criminals they asked to search my car. I had the opportunity to say no. They had no right to search my car, they just asked to do so. It seems the telecoms decided not to say no. Work with me here:
It really is the NSA’s job to ask that sort of thing. That is what they do they gather intelligence. They do it in the intrest of national security.
However the telephone companies have no obligation to say yes…. in fact I think they shoulds say no (and so does Congress since they passed a law saying that) unless they put a notice on the bill that says “We may give your personal information away, heck we will try to sell it because well information is worth a lot of money and since we try to make money for our shareholders we just think we might do that.”
That then frees us to choose a phone company that won’t whore out our information willy-nilly but will require due process.
So stop complaining about the NSA and bitch about the phone companies treating you like crap.
Third, I don’t care if the NSA listens to my phone calls, keeps track of what numbers I call, or if they hang out in my living room having coffee waiting for me to do something suspiscious. That is OK with me because I’m not a freaking criminal. Heck, I’ll make the Maxwell House.
I trust the government more with my information than I do the phone company. The government has never spammed me, sold my name to telemarketers, nor sent me catalogs for sex toys like private companies have.
Oh, by the way in case you have not figured it out yet, there is no privacy anymore. If you tell anyone something you may as well write it on your forehead. Welcome to the 21st century. Have a nice day.
Re:No problem with it
Your talk of search warrants is rather off base, considering in this case there weren’t any, and the government has those billions of records without cause.
I think there should be warrants if the government is listening to the content of the call. If they are only making note of the fact that I called (222)222-2222 I don’t really think they need a warrant for that. Really, what is your expectation of privacy. For your bill you know that the phone company is recording every call you make.
As a rhetorical question, would you mind if I revealed your name for all to see, or do you have something to hide?
I very much have something to hide. Unfortunately I work in a profession that a large percentage of the members will punish me for my beliefs. As such, in cases like this I prefer to remain anonymous. It is really sad. Librarianship should be one of the most open professions but it is not. If you don’t believe a certain way you are punished in this profession.
No where are you really anonymous anyway. The people that run this site are my only shield. They are able to look at my IP and identify who I am. I guess I have some faith in Blake. Although I have seen one instance were one of the other administrators outed an anonymous person. I thought it was fairly amazing because the person doing the outing was someone I would expect to chain themselves to a library computer if the FBI came knocking but they were willing to out a fellow librarian on LISNEWS.
On a final note let’s say I join with you and completely condemn what the government is doing. That still leaves the question of what should they be doing to protect us. If another terrorist event happens what things that if the government did not do now would you think they were negligient in not doing? Make yourself king and tell me how you would protect the citizens of this country? If someone has a great idea on what to do maybe they should share it.
Re:No problem with it
I thought about posting anonymously some time ago. I knew you couldn’t get a library job without being googled and inspected like my annual physical exam. However I have the luxury of supporting only myself, something that I could do flipping burgers if I had to. I don’t have to worry about keeping my job to support the wife and kids, at least at this time I don’t.
So I post under my own name, not a pseudonym but my own name. M.D. O’Neil because I can, but more importantly because I don’t mind being called on anything I say. I have some very strong opinions about the profession, our professional organization – ALA, and libraries. I have often disagreed with people on LISNews, and many have disagreed with me as well but I can say with some certainty that I have also agreed with everyone on here at one time or another.
One would think a profession that preaches diversity, educates its practitioners in schools that have diversity scholarships, has a professional organization that promotes diversity, would embrace diversity of opinion. Oddly, taken in toto librarians don’t truly embrace diversity. Thankfully we don’t have to take all librarians as a whole, but individually.
So if someone reads my postings here or at any other website, at all of which I post under my real name, and decides not to hire me, or to fire me, or that they don’t like me, or gets any other nutty idea in their heads then that’s just great I don’t want to work there or associate with those people anyway.
Nobody -especially libraries- should hire or promote someone based upon their opinion but on their work. If I can separate my opinions from my professional practice (and if you don’t think I can go look at the shelves in the library where I’ve done collection development) anyone can. Unfortunately they may not want to.
Lots of librarians talk the talk, but a good librarian walks the walk.