OK Lawmakers Start threatening library funding

Anonymous Patron writes "Remember that "non-binding" resolution passed in Oklahoma last week? It suddenly looks a little more binding. Some state Representatives are threatening to kill a bill giving libraries more money unless the libraries remove books with homosexual themes from children's sections.
kfor.com Reports Representatives Sally Kern and Tad Jones say if libraries don't comply with an resolution there is a chance there's an extra $841,000 dollars won't be approved for the state The Department of Libraries. Tulsa has already caved. Remember, This isn't censorship, and it's not about hate!"

Comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

GBLT

New York City let's men in women's clothing use public bathrooms meant for women. OK simply chooses not to go down the same twisted road as its sister state. So you're right. Its not about hate. Its about seeing the writing on the wall and doing something about it.

Re:GBLT

transgendered people are not "men in women's clothing". They are transgendered, and transgendered people have existed throughout history in many cultures. If you find "the writing on the wall" to be disgusting, something that needs "doing something about", than those of us who find transgendered people to be individuals just like any others will interpret your disgust as hate.

and back on the topic of libraries, your response is completely irrelevant. For one thing, homosexuality and transgenderism are not the same thing. And secondly, removing books from school libraries about homosexuality in order to prevent New York City from allowing transgendered people into the opposite public bathrooms (tell me, are you comfortable with women who identify as men using the same bathroom as your sister?) is about as sensible as removing The outsiders from school libraries because you think Tallahassee is insufficiently tough on crime.

Re:GBLT

So allowing gay themed books in the library leads to transvestites using the woman's restroom????? Wow, talk about a slippery slope.

Isn't it possible to seperate the two issues, and to discuss them on their own merits?

Re:GBLT

"So allowing gay themed books in the library leads to transvestites using the woman's restroom????? Wow, talk about a slippery slope."

That is exactly what has happened. Its just that NYC is at the bottom of the slope and OK is at the top.

*You're* the one who brought up GBLT in a previous post. At the time my jaw hit the floor and I'm frankly still a little shocked. But the fact is most of you don't see a difference do you? Its an all or nothing with you and the only reason you stick to homosexual arguements is because you think you can win those.

Its been an eye-opening week here on LISnews, I gotta say.

Re:GBLT

"transgendered people are not "men in women's clothing"."

Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. End of story.

"tell me, are you comfortable with women who identify as men using the same bathroom as your sister?"

Regardless of what the woman thinks she is, no intelligent female who only weighs 100-120lbs is going to walk into a men's bathroom in NYC, regardless of whether she's 'allowed to' or not. I would hope you have enough sense in terms of self protection not to do something that stupid.

Re:GBLT

Well, keep your eyes open some more. You might learn something.

So, how do you *know" that is what happened in New York?

No.. I "stick" to homosexual arguments because those are the ones that are brought up by Right Wing Social Conservatives. Evidently considering anything beyond GLB is just too much for their tiny little brains to comprehend. I would hate to think I was responsible for giving them linoleum burns on their chins.

Re:GBLT

"So, how do you *know" that is what happened in New York?"

Because nothing on this Earth happens without a prior chain of events leading up to it.

"No.. I "stick" to homosexual arguments because those are the ones that are brought up by Right Wing Social Conservatives. Evidently considering anything beyond GLB is just too much for their tiny little brains to comprehend. I would hate to think I was responsible for giving them linoleum burns on their chins. "

My mistake, I thought a lot of the liberals here were semi-rational. Won't happen again.

Re:GBLT

Oh hell no, we're not semi-rational. We're wholly rational. Now, believing that a child leafing through a gay themed children's book will magically make them GBLT is irrational.

How do you know that allowing gay themed books in the children's library leads to allowing transgendered men to use the women's restroom? Everything has a prior chain of events... it's just that not all events have anything significant to do with a particular outcome.

Re:GBLT

Well, ever since I read Annie on my Mind I've been sexually obsessed with frogs. Female frogs. That's right, I'm a batrachophiliac. I'm a Gay Frog Fetishist, and I blame it all on children's literature.

*weeps in shame*

Re:GBLT

Oh, and you probably think you should be allowed to go potty on the straw pile in the Amphibian exhibit at the Zoo.

Re:GBLT

"Oh hell no, we're not semi-rational. We're wholly rational. Now, believing that a child leafing through a gay themed children's book will magically make them GBLT is irrational."

To be in the information business and to believe that information does not impact the user is both irrational and irresponsible.

"How do you know that allowing gay themed books in the children's library leads to allowing transgendered men to use the women's restroom? Everything has a prior chain of events... it's just that not all events have anything significant to do with a particular outcome. "

Its called defining deviance down.

Re:GBLT

Information does impact the user. It's just that it doesn't impact all users the same. And, not ALL information impacts in a significant fashion. And, there is almost always contradicting information.

100 kids read Heather Has Two Mommies. What percentage of them turn out to be gay? Is it significantly any different than the percentage that would have turned out gay if they hadn't read the book? I don't think so. The assumption that a child is more likely to become gay from simply reading that book is just plain wrong.

Re:GBLT

You don't think so, but you don't know. And the fact is its not going to be just about one book
anymore now is it?

Re:GBLT

Liberals, liberals, liberals, blah, blah, blah, gays, gays, hateUSA, Freedom, Free Markets, blah blah blah bias BUSH ROOLS!

Yeah, whatever, Greg.

Re:GBLT

It's late, and I haven't taken the effort to read all the threads here. And I don't plan to. But allow this "right-winger" to make an important distinction.

From my perspective, we miss the issue debating the "influence" issue. I doubt, just as you, that Bobby will now be enticed to ask Billy for a rendezvous behind Miss Apple's ant farm. But that isn't the point with Heather and her moms is it? It's about engaging illustrations and bite-sized prosaic writing to make a judgement "for" the impressionable child reader. The same child that has trouble remembering to wipe front to back much less why they need to know that lesbianism is ok.

Fine, let them read it.

But why make an exception here??? We dare not write about humans, specifically to kiddies, without taking the trouble to introduce the Big Bang and Charlie Darwin.

So, why not continue to introduce scientific theories to inquiring young minds? Maybe a chapter on penis envy narrated by Ole Freudy Toidy and his friend Little Dicky? And what about the evil Queen Electra and her plot to kill Heather's grandmothers? In other words let's see this value judgement for the kiddies supported with some of that science, sugar-coated of course, that a few around here say we christian oafs ain't got no use fur. Can we agree on that?

Re:GBLT

Absolutely. I'm glad we agree ;) In fact, last I saw, books about evolution and the big bang ARE down in kiddies room. So are Greek myths and Grimm's Fairy Tales. I haven't seen anything about Penis Envy, but I think it would be fun to see one that was written for a young audience.

It is important to have books like Heather Has Two Mommies because kids live in households that have two Mommies or two Daddies.

Re:GBLT

Right. I'm sure those books are a HUGE part of the Juvenile collection, and I'm sure those are the ONLY books that they read. Where are the parents in this? Why can't they discuss there own values with their children. Wouldn't that be much more effective than worrying about the potential effects of incidental reading of a book that conflicts with those values?

Re:GBLT

"Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. End of story."


So gender is determined by the phenotype, then, not by the genotype? Careful, there's a lot more grey area around than most people imagine. Here's a short list of situations where medical doctors find the line between the genders to be broad and blurry:


  • 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (5-ARD) is a condition caused by a mutation of the 5-alpha reductase type 2 gene. Individuals with 5-ARD have XY chromosomes and testes, and tend to have a vagina, but with a small penis capable of ejaculation instead of a clitoris (this penis, however, appears to be a clitoris at birth). These individuals are normally raised as girls. However, come puberty, their testes will descend, their voice will deepen and they often will develop a male sexual identity. But they develop only limited facial hair.

  • Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) refers to any of several autosomal recessive diseases resulting from defects in steps of the synthesis of cortisol from cholesterol by the adrenal glands. Most of these diseases involve excessive or defective production of sex steroids and can pervert or impair development of primary or secondary sex characteristics in affected infants, children, and adults. (Some problems caused by various forms of CAH: ambiguous genitalia such that it is difficult to determine sex; early pubic hair and rapid growth in childhood; precocious puberty or failure of puberty to occur; excessive facial hair, virilization, and/or menstrual irregularity in adolescence; infertility due to anovulation)
  • Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) is a set of disorders of sexual differentiation that results from mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor. The nature of the resulting problem varies according to the structure and sensitivity of the abnormal receptor. Most of the forms of AIS involve variable degrees of undervirilization and/or infertility in XY persons of either sex. Visible expressions range from the subtle [Complete AIS (CAIS): completely female body except no uterus; testes in the abdomen; minimal androgenic hair at puberty.] to the blatant [Reifenstein syndrome: obviously ambiguous genitalia; small testes may be in abdomen or scrotum; sparse to normal androgenic hair; gynecomastia at puberty.].
  • Klinefelter's syndrome is a condition caused by a chromosomal abnormality in males (specifically, a nondisjunction); sufferers have a pair of X sex chromosomes instead of just one. The XXY chromosome arrangement is a common genetic abnormality, occurring as frequently as 1 in 1,000 male births.
  • Swyer syndrome, or XY gonadal dysgenesis, is a type of female hypogonadism in which no functional gonads are present to induce puberty in an otherwise normal girl whose karyotype is then found to be XY. Her gonads are found to be nonfunctional streaks. Estrogen and progesterone must be replaced. The gonads are usually removed surgically because they do not function and may develop cancer in them.
  • Also: Turner's syndrome; Chapelle syndrome; and Chimerism.
  • According to the some estimates (Fausto-Sterling et. al., 2000) perhaps as much as 1 percent of live births exhibit some degree of sexual ambiguity, and that between 0.1% and 0.2% of live births are ambiguous enough to become the subject of specialist medical attention, including surgery to disguise their sexual ambiguity.

    And all of these involve ambiguity before you even consider the issue of how someone self-identifies their gender.
  • Re:GBLT

    Interesting stuff, but like I said in another thread, cruel science. The fact is that in some of these cases, as you point out, it will be the parent that chooses the gender of the child. The parents will also, more than likely, make some effort to instill a sexual identity that matches that choice. Its not a question of 'making someone gay', if you grow up in an environment where all sexual choices become a gray area then I have to believe that a person will be neither gay nor straight but change depending on the environment they're in. Most parents are not going to want that, they want to create a sexual identity in the same way they create a moral and intellectual identity, an identity tied to what they believe is the child's physical nature. Boys have penises, girls have vaginas.

    Re:GBLT

    Interesting stuff, but like I said in another thread, cruel science.


    Don't blame science. Science is the method of acquiring knowledge to help understand what's happening. It's a cruel society that fears when things become a gray area, and imposes consequences on the situation.


    Boys have penises, girls have vaginas.


    Unless you happen to be one of the "boys" who begins to menstruate through your phallus at puberty. Or one of the "girls" created because of a botched circumcision who ends up totally confused about why you never liked skirts or dresses except for when they were worn by other girls.


    Dr. Milton Diamond is a Professor of Anatomy and Reproductive Biology and director of The Pacific Center for Sex and Society at the University of Hawai`i. His research has led him to consider that there are three primary aspects that combine to make up gender:
    Sexual Identity; How one sees oneself at the deepest level. He includes "intersexed" in addition to male and female.
    Gender Role; How one presents publicly in dress, speech, gesture and so on, as man or woman.
    Sexual Orientation; who you desire as a prospective partner (or that you may not desire one at all).


    He was one of the first to challenge John Hopkins University's established protocol of sexual assignment of intersexed babies. A very interesting aspect of his work is the significant amount of support it has received from adult persons who had their ambiguous gender "assigned" one way or the other at birth.


    Variability in other body features (size or shape of ear, nose, hands, etc.; coloring of hair, skin, or eye) are more readily recognized and accepted. But gender identity that is not obviously male or female, but is perhaps both or neither, is considered monstrous. It is evidence of that gray area and it MUST be corrected to either black or white.

    Re:GBLT

    I think the feared impact is not so much that a kid who reads Heather Has Two Mommies may turn out to be gay, but that this kid may then be willing to consider that Heather and her two mommies might NOT actually be monsters.

    Re:GBLT

    "I think the feared impact is not so much that a kid who reads Heather Has Two Mommies may turn out to be gay, but that this kid may then be willing to consider that Heather and her two mommies might NOT actually be monsters. "

    Definately! Banning these informational books brings the cold irrationality back to the top of the pile. What kind of example are we showing the world? Our way or the highway? We turn on our own because they don't fit in with what we consider normal? Committment should be normal. Not whether it is M/F, M/M or F/F.

    These books are aimed at kids to give them information. Not to suggest that they turn over the leaf (not that it works like that but there are a few who believe it does). This is something akin to big brother for certain!

    Syndicate content