Iran hangs 16 year old girl because of her sharp tongue.

mdoneil writes "I guess Iran's Constitution differs slightly from that of the USA. A young woman was executed for what she said. The article here


I guess I'll cross Iran off of my vaction plans list.

An interesting side note is that the above page has a blurb about "France steps up its investments in Iran". That article is here. Yipee lets here it for France! Lets all pitch in and help developing nations!"

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Re:Economics of Abortion

Alas, Tomeboy...I'm not a socialist (some good old-fashioned Red baiting?)...You make a good point regarding the economics, however far more telling is your concern about "Africans and middle-easterners". What next? "The Dusky Menace"?

Re:Economics of Abortion

Tomeboy, you have got to learn to think for yourself and stop blindly parroting the party line.

Abortion policy is an economic disaster in the long run and socialists like you should be concerned.

As usual, this is in diametric opposition to reality. It is lack of control over individual reproductive faculties that will create an economic disaster. Consider the case of that young woman you so sententiously preached about at your site. If she had been clued in to birth control and abortion, she would not now be trapped in a cycle of poverty. By aborting the second pregnancy, she could have finished her training and been in a position to improve the quality of life for her self and her first child. Including a better education for him.

Now multiply that one "Welfare Mom" case by 800,000 a year and ask yourself where the government is going to get the money to foot that bill.

Then ask yourself how society is going to deal with those 800,000 indigents who will be acculturated, living in squalor, and a number of whom will turn to crime, drugs, and domestic violence as a way of venting their frustration and impotence, twenty-years from now. By which time they will be producing the next generation of welfare bums.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

The point here Fang is that Canada is not 'hunting' at all.

No, the point here is that we will not kiss your self-righteous, blood-lusting ass. If we are not with the U.S., it is because your pointy-headed little President Moron went out of his way to alienate those he could otherwise have counted on as an allies.

Kudos, though, for pulling the same bullshit stunt Cheney did and misrepresenting the word "sensitive" by using it out of context.

As for your mythical Arrogance of Intellect, I could as easily impute it to King George the Pathetic, in as much he thought he knew better than the U.N. weapons inspectors. At least the rest of the world, including Canada, was willing to look for alternatives. All Bush ever wanted was to go in there guns a blazing and kill anybody who stood between him and the oil he wanted for Halliburton.

Economics of Abortion

Because in any cost/benefit study between slavery and freedom, anti-abortion comes out costing too much.

Nonsense, unless you don’t give a damn about those fortunate children today that eluded manual vacuum aspiration. Abortion policy is an economic disaster in the long run and socialists like you should be concerned.

Ask any European friends how many Africans and middle-easterners they will need to join their work force to foot the bill for their socialized medicine, pension, and other assorted state-funded goodies. How Americans and Canadians will need to be well into their seventies to qualify for state-sponsored social security programs until they eventually become insolvent. Social services have always been “pay as you go� because politicians can't keep their mitts off any present day surplus. Workers today subsidize retirees today. You do the math. Now carry this out 20 years.

…The effects of such a decline do not appear immediately; a generation must grow up for them to be fully felt. But even if European fertility rates were to return to 2.1 tomorrow - a virtual impossibility - Europe's current population of 727 million would still drop by 171 million by 2050. Since government welfare programs depend upon a steady inflow of tax money, few countries will have enough people by then to support such programs.

(Health Canada inadvertently discloses facts Planned Parenthood would like to suppress� Report / Newsmagazine (Alberta Edition); 3/4/2002)

16 year old girl executed

I feel sick. There is nothing that I can think to say except that I'm appalled at how quickly I forget that the world beyond my own little orbit is truly savage.

What on earth could this "relgious judge" Rezai have meant when he said - after her execution that

..."her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her 'sharp tongue�
?!?!?!

It's at times like these that I feel myself praying that there really is a judgement day...and then I try to stop myself from falling into that abyss.

A Sad Event

There is an old poem:
"Freedom now so seldom wakes
That the only sign she gives,
Is when some heart, indignant, breaks,
To show that she still lives."
It is sorrowful when a country devours it's young, but the only cure for this must come from within. when the parents of this girl and others in the town accept this style of harsh judgement without protest or revolution, then the whole society agrees that conformity to community standards is more important than life itself. Those with sharp tongues to attack the society's norms will always be in danger from those who want to protect it at all costs. Sharp tongued heretics will always be a minority, and will always be at risk. It is sad to see a courageous woman die for speaking out, and to see the censors win.

Re:16 year old girl executed

In an oppressive, patriarchic regime, a sharp tounged woman is any woman who will tell a man the truth to his face. My call on it in this case is: Ms. Sahaleh basically told a member of the priest class that the priest class is responsible for all the moral corruption and is deserving of punishment instead of the people the priests oppress.

Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

There's no words for this. I share others sorrow on this. We should remember that a number of Mideast societies treat their women brutally, killing them for minor offenses, tolerated if not carried out by the State. None of that excuses Iran or the judge." An interesting side note is that the above page has a blurb about "France steps up its investments in Iran". That article is here. Yipee lets here it for France! Lets all pitch in and help developing nations!"I'm not a Francophile, but it's important to realize they're hardly alone in providing economic support to Iran. Some of our "better behaved" allies are Iran's top trading partners, according to the 2004 CIA World FactBook:----------------Exports - commodities: petroleum 80%, chemical and petrochemical products, fruits and nuts, carpetsExports - partners: Japan 20.1% (Has troops in Iraq), China 9.9%, Italy 7.6% (Has troops in Iraq), South Korea 5.7% (HAD troops in Iraq) (2002)----------------Imports - commodities: industrial raw materials and intermediate goods, capital goods, foodstuffs and other consumer goods, technical services, military suppliesImports - partners: Germany 17.1%, Switzerland 9.3%, UAE 9.1%, France 5.9%, Italy 5.8% (Has Troops in Iraq), South Korea 4.8% (Had troops in Iraq), China 4.7%, Russia 4.3% (2002)----------------------Another obstensible US ally helping Iran economicly is Pakistan, which is joining with India on a new oil pipeline from Iran. The same article I cited indicates that Pakistan will be giving Iran a "Preferential Trade Agreement"Again, I'm not trying to excuse Iran, or even France, but these days it is vitally important to recognize failings everywhere, not just in the people out of favor with us. Only that way can we build moral clarity and show the world we actually mean what we say about standing for liberty and truth.

re: interesting side note

I think it's interesting that you would take a chance juxtoposition of articles as an opportunity to snipe at France. France is not the only country to invest in repressive countries around the world. The US hasn't exactly been morally discriminating when it comes to choosing places to
set up shop. As for pitching in and helping developing nations - do you think that by isolating and ignoring these types of places that they will improve?
This event was truly awful - but please don't sarcastically condemn an entire nation and those who do business with it on the basis of a single horrible act.
And that's "hear it for France", by the way, not "here it for France".

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Yes but, if and when the time comes that we will have to deal with Iran which country will mostly like get in the way?

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Do you mean "deal with Iran" as in "admit that sanctions aren't helping anyone and start a diplomatic dialogue" or "deal with Iran" as in "invade a soverign nation over the objections of most of the world"? If you mean the former, I don't think France or anyone else will "get in the way". If you mean the latter, I deeply hope that France, Germany, and the rest of the world once again "get in the way".

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Diplomatic: Characterized by tact and shrewdness; dexterous; artful

Diplomatic dialogue: a stalling technique used by dictatorships to hold off outside interference in order to shore up military power usually by creating The Bomb and therefore solidifying their rule and the continued oppression of the people within their borders, ex. North Korea.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Yes but, if and when the time comes that we will have to deal with Iran which country will mostly like get in the way?

The Republican regime of George Bush. I have no doubt that the worst enemy of the U.S. is the enemy within. One that is morally and ethically responsible for the genocide of 11 to 15 thousand people. One whose murder of those innocents was founded on the most egregious disinformation and propaganda.

Yeah, if a time should come when Iran does something that ticks off Bush the baby-killer while he's still in office, he certainly won't make any effort to deal with it in a sane and rational manner.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

To stand by and do nothing while a crime is committed in front of you is, to me, to be morally responsible for the crime. So which deaths are Canada responsible for? The ten thousand for not trying to stop us or the hundreds of thousands for not trying to stop Saddam?

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

"Yes but, if and when the time comes that we will have to deal with Iran which country will mostly like get in the way?"

Well, we've been dealing with Iran, but we've been doing it through foreign subsidiaries or middlemen in Dubai.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

So since our hands are dirty we should just leave them alone?

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Your sentiment raises an interesting question.Is violence the only solution?

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

No, we should't leave them alone. That's what diplomacy is for (just to clarify what I mean by "leave them alone", since I suspect we have different meanings for the phrase). You're lack of outrage concerning the business dealings with Iran, Pakistan and U.A.E is rather telling.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

with Iran? probably. In time the people there would have eventually changed things for the better but 1. not only has the Iranian gov't increased their nuclear activity they've basically come out and said "We're making a bomb, we're entitled to, f' off". Which means at some point Israel will bomb them if we don't and 2. part of the problems we've been having in Iraq stem from Iran stirring the pot. They are as much a part of the war on terror as Iraq and will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

"You're lack of outrage concerning the business dealings with Iran, Pakistan and U.A.E is rather telling."

Unlike Blake I don't think Halburton and the U.S. Government are one and the same. I guess I implied that with the 'our hands are dirty' bit, my mistake. American companies do bad things, big deal. I'm 100% for putting the presidents of those companies in jail for doing it, hell, if its bad enough just shoot'em.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

"They are as much a part of the war on terror as Iraq"

So, they don't have WMD, they're not building WMD, their conventional army is pretty much useless, and they have no ties with Al-Queda?

Or are we talking about a different Iraq here?

As for North Korea: 2002 - North Korea offers the US a deal. The US refuses. 2004 - the US offers N Korea the same deal. North Korea refuses. Better use of diplomacy at the time would probably have been beneficial.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

So the fact that Cheney went from being CEO of Haliburton to vice-president of the US means nothing? And the fact that Haliburton was trading with Iran *at the time* that Cheney was their CEO means nothing?

But hey, did you just call for someone to shoot the VPOTUS? Isn't that treason?

So who is Iran Focus, anyway?

They're an awfully secretive organisation. Their about us page gives no contact details other than email, they don't list any names of their writers or editors, as far as I can see.

And [sarcasm] perhaps most seriously of all, their site has a Francophone version [/sarcasm].

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I went through library school they taught us some criteria for evaluating information sources. And against those criteria, Iran Focus doesn't stack up very well.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

The article Blake linked to was dated April of this year I assumed the business dealings were current. Anything pre-9/11 I really don't care about. The rules completely changed after that.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

1. Iraq does have WMDs or at least did. If they used them all killing their own people that was pretty dumb of them but hardly something we would or should have assumed.

2. Iraq did have ties with Al-Queda, the 9-11 commission said they didn't have ties with 9/11 they did not say they didn't have ties with Al-queda.

3. North Korea already had nukes by 2002, funny how you ignore the joke-known-as-diplomacy in the early 90's led by Carter, approved by Clinton, which led to NK having nukes by 2002.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

So it was OK for the US to trade with Iran, no matter how evil their regime, until 9/11, and not OK after 9/11, even though Iran had nothing to do with 9/11?

I'm just trying to clarify here, because that truly makes no sense to me, if it's what you are saying.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

1. Oh come on. Where are they? Powell told the UN that the USA knew where they were. The inspectors, as well as the French, Russians, etc were asking for more time to determine whether there were WMD. Yes, you should have known about them, because they were your justification for invading another country.

2a. The justification was that Iraq was involved in 9/11. Which it was found not to be. b. You say that the commission "did not say that Iraq had no ties with A-Q". This doesn't mean that it did.

3. Say all you like about Clinton and Carter. Whatever they did or didn't do doesn't excuse what Bush is doing now. I'm no fan of Clinton either.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Pre-9/11 Ok? No. Treasonous? No probably not. After 9/11 Ok? No. Treasonous? Yeah I'd say so. If treasonous then shoot'em? yeah ok, don't quote me but so far it makes sense.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

1. He either used'em, destroyed'em, or sent them to Syria. The French and Russians were looking for more time to cover their behinds. The oil-for-food scandal takes away any credibility you want to try and give them.

2a. That's a bald-faced lie.

2b. No it doesn't mean they did but there's a whole book called The Connection by Stephen Hayes that details just how exstenive those ties were.

3. Your trying to ignore where the problem started with NK. Its helluva lot harder to deal with a country that has nukes then one that doesn't, especially when the dictator is a nutjob like Kim. At this point whatever happens happens, there won't be a clean way out.

The West is as much to blame

The West that trade with Iran despite their apalling treatment of their people is as much to blame. The West will trade with the devil and sell their grandmothers if it was economically beneficial to them.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense.

Look at the history of the revolution.

Considering the recent history of iran (the religious revolution), it wouldn't be suprising at all for something like this to happen. Even if religious persecution and other such abuses have tonned down a bit.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

To stand by and do nothing while a crime is committed in front of you is, to me, to be morally responsible for the crime.

Yes, well, a very pretty sentiment. But the U.S. did not stand by and do nothing, did it? Saddam Hussein was an American puppet, installed and supported by American dollars. The chemical weapons he used to gas the Kurds were Made In America. Dick Cheney -- the U.S. Vice President? -- stood shoulder to shoulder with Hussein and smiled and shook his hand for the cameras. (A propos of nothing: The Bush family raised some 42 million dollars for the Nazi party of Germany, and did business directly with the man who owned the factories that produced the Zyklon B; Bush has closer business ties to Osama bin Laden than Hussein does; bin Laden is another American puppet who cut the strings your government had on him and walked away. So was that tyrant in the Phillipines.) In 1956 the U.S. government violated Iranian sovereignty, removed a popular, progressive, and legally elected president to install another puppet, the Shah. This tyrant implemented a police state that was later co-opted by an even bloodier-handed lunatic, and his system is what you have to deal with in Iran today.

I hardly think anyone in the U.S. is any position to talk about moral responsibility when the U.S. is personally and legally responsible for the whole mess to begin with.

If Canada is morally responsible, then it is because we have chosen to stand by international laws and not violate the sovereignty of foreign powers as casually as the U.S. does.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

...Bush the baby-killer

As another who values the life of the innocent, I'm looking forward to viewing the following photos on your postcards collection.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Clarification: I (not Blake) posted the links to the Forbes article and Halliburton release. (I figured those sources might be better received than, say, an article from Mother Jones.) My intended point was to suggest that Americans - and especially supporters of Bush/Cheney - might not want to be so quick to cast stones specifically at French companies for doing biz in Iran. And I'd just like to point out here that, even if we give a "9/11 changed everything" pass to Halliburton when Cheney was boss, the company - despite its post-9/11 treasonous (to use Greg's adjective) activities - was awarded billions of dollars in non-competitive contracts in Iraq, which the Vice President possibly coordinated.

Just stuff to think about, is all I'm sayin'.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

My bad, I saw the B and the small number and just filled in the blanks.

While its certainly stuff to think about its a good example of a conversation I recently had with Daniel about the need for facts depending on the issue. I don't have a problem with Halburton getting contracts in Iraq, why should they not get them? But the entire arguement about which companies should be doing business there pales in comparison to the fact that we needed to go there and do what we did.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

"If Canada is morally responsible, then it is because we have chosen to stand by international laws and not violate the sovereignty of foreign powers as casually as the U.S. does."

Hiding behind international law while thousands die is very brave of you Fang, you should be proud.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Disregarding those international laws to perpetrate your own genocide is vile and disgusting and every free American should be ashamed of the Bush regime and the slaughter being committed in their name for a few buckets of oil.

You failed to address any of the facts I posted, by the way.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

I have seen no indications that you actually do value the lives of innocents.

Abortion, like it or not, is a matter of personal choice. Having George Bush blow you up with 1,000 pounds of fulminating high explosives is not a personal choice. It is something forced on you by outside forces.

Come to that, however, kindly explain how opposing abortion puts you on the moral high ground when you so volubly cheer for the mass murder in Iraq. Or how you can proclaim yourself to be in favour of freedom and democracy in Iraq while advocating slavery for American women. That strikes me as a clear and present double standard morality.

Just for the record, by the way, I'm opposed to abortion. Which is why, although it's a moot point, I will never choose to have one. What you probably will not understand is that I can oppose abortion and still support a system of personal liberty where someone else can opt to have one at their sole discretion. It goes to heart of what makes a free person free in the first place.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

I've been pretty consistent in saying we made some big mistakes pre-9/11. Rules changed that day. Its a whole new game.

I notice you still haven't come up with an excuse for Canada sitting on the sidelines, neither with us, nor against us, yet people dying either way.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

...Abortion, like it or not, is a matter of personal choice.

Which makes it no different than other flavor of murder. In other words, this obvious fact does nothing to justify the killing.

If you truly respect the lives of the innocent, let's see these abortion photos added to your postcards. Surely you would agree the 800,000+ American babies killed annually deserve the equivalent outrage you have for the children of Iraq?

more on the story

Not sure about the reliability of this resource but -

http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=42298

08/22/2004 01:15 PM ID: 42298

16-Year-Old Iranian Girl Hanged For Being A Rape Victim

A young girl who was accused of "moral corruption" (premarital sex) as a result of being raped was executed by hanging in Iran on Sunday the 16th.

When the girl told the judge that he should "punish the perpetrators of moral corruption, not the victims", the judge used his power to push (beyond normal procedures) for the 16-year-old's execution.

When asked, judge Haji Rezaii, a fundamentalist Muslim, said that he executed the girl for her "sharp tongue".

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Your Supreme Court has ruled that a fetus is not a human being and does not enjoy the protections of human rights. Get them to change that. Until they do, those are not babies, only fetuses.

Then, you come up with some way to show me how your control over another person's reproductive faculties does not reduce her to the status of slave.

As long as you patriarchic slave-mongers insist on eroding or outright violating people's rights to live their lives their way, for good or ill, I will oppose the anti-abortion movement.

And that is final. Because in any cost/benefit study between slavery and freedom, anti-abortion comes out costing too much.

And if you'd like a look at a United States wherein women are the chattels of any male, read the epistolary first chapter of Alice Walker's The Color Purple. And read Jan Goodwin's essay: Buried Alive. And then read her book The Price of Honor.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Your Supreme Court has ruled that a fetus is not a human being and does not enjoy the protections of human rights. Get them to change that. Until they do, those are not babies, only fetuses.

Precious. Then you agree those were niggers in the Dred Scott case?

Re:more on the story

I found a better source for more details -
www.amnesty.org

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde1303620 04

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

I've been pretty consistent in saying we made some big mistakes pre-9/11.

And I've been pretty consistent in saying that you haven't done anything right since then.

Rules changed that day. Its a whole new game.

Nothing changed that day except the scope of successful terrorist actions against the U.S. Everything else remained the same.

I notice you still haven't come up with an excuse for Canada sitting on the sidelines [...]

Yeah, I can see why you're unable to understand how we could possibly continue to respect international laws such as the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. charter, and whatever else is involved, after all your pissing and moaning and playing the victim.

Gee, you think maybe military misadventurism and the mass murder of 11 to 15 thousand civilians -- and all that based on a tissue of lie -- somehow strikes us as not necessarily the best response? I mean, I've only been harping on that everytime you intimate that you have some kind of divine right to kill anybody who gets in your way.

Here's a real clue: Canada has never operated under the Arrogance of Power the U.S. always has.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

The U.N. charter.

Re:Execution Disgusting / Don't Single out France

Jesus! You really need the simplest things explained to you over and over, don't you?

A country's Supreme Court is the highest arbiter of its laws whether you agree with that court's rulings or not.

I've already told you this once. I have no doubt that you'll give me cause to repeat it again in the future.

And by the way, I say they're being enslaved was wrong. All of your country's systems of slavery -- from enslaving the blacks as a work force to enslaving the reproductive faculties of women -- were wrong.

But you can tell any descendents of the Scott's that they would have been welcomed in Canada when you would have sold them back down the Mississip'.

Re: interesting side note

It was an interesting juxtaposition, and that is why I mentioned it as simply that. In the article it also mentioned other countries that trade with Iran so I didn't single out France.


Oh, and thanks for pointing out the typographical error I made. I also omitted the apostrophes from the two instances of let’s. I think I’ll open a vein.

Can you help me with another grammar problem? Is it more correct to say: "bugger off" or "sod off"?

Re:So who is Iran Focus, anyway?

Neither did InterFax at first, not it is one of the leading news organizations in the East. It started out as a typewritten daily sent by fax to other news organizations. I had a friend who would forward it on to me. We were really into 14.4Kbps fax modems at the time.


One could do a whois and perhaps ring up or email Sara Rajabi in France or drop an email to the address on the about us page.


When I got my MLS were were taught about research so perhaps you could have found information about this execution on the Chicago Sun Times or perhaps Amnesty International UK's site.


As the Gipper said, trust but verify.


Oh, and the article about France carried a NYT byline.

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