Iran hangs 16 year old girl because of her sharp tongue.

Topic: 

mdoneil writes "I guess Iran's Constitution differs slightly from that of the USA. A young woman was executed for what she said. The article here

I guess I'll cross Iran off of my vaction plans list.

An interesting side note is that the above page has a blurb about "France steps up its investments in Iran". That article is here. Yipee lets here it for France! Lets all pitch in and help developing nations!"

Comments

Jesus! You really need the simplest things explained to you over and over, don't you?

A country's Supreme Court is the highest arbiter of its laws whether you agree with that court's rulings or not.

I've already told you this once. I have no doubt that you'll give me cause to repeat it again in the future.

And by the way, I say they're being enslaved was wrong. All of your country's systems of slavery -- from enslaving the blacks as a work force to enslaving the reproductive faculties of women -- were wrong.

But you can tell any descendents of the Scott's that they would have been welcomed in Canada when you would have sold them back down the Mississip'.

It's nice to be needed.

Prattle and folk sayings (two words I believe) notwithstanding.

There's no need for me to illustrate. I've known of Mr.Hentoff since the time when he was primarily known as a (superb) jazz critic. Just as I would disagree with him from time to time regarding music, I disagree with him regarding this. Considering some of your past posts, I realize you weren't looking for an analogy at all. You just like to toss around a racist word or two for shock effect and THAT is tedious.

Indeed you are needed. In fact, if you didn't exist, I would have to invent you.

Yes, and by the standards of today, all three could be considered "terrorist states", since all three provided resources to the original Axis.

You just like to toss around a racist word or two for shock effect and THAT is tedious.

Ehhh?? I did post one word, nigger, but obviously the subtlety of the context was lost on you.

Take a break.

No, the subtlety was not lost because there wasn't any subtlety. You seem nervous.

Keen observation.

Perhaps it's the combination of caffeine and your deft wit.

You keep mentioning the mass murder Fang. Step up and stop us.

To stop you we would have to engage in your brand of military misadverturism; a philosophy to which we are opposed. Although I would allow that the U.S. -- and it's government in particular -- would be vastly improved with the appropriate surgical strikes.

When hunting monsters, one must take care not to become the monster. --Nietzsche

By the way, I consider your bragodoccio to be another example of the Arrogance of Power upon which U.S. culture is founded. You have no idea how such a statement can come across to someone who writes creative fiction and who is sensitive to "voice". It sounds to me very much like the sneering challenge of a swaggering bully.

written by Nat Hentoff
Free Inquiry, Fall2001 pg. 16

Sorry Fang, you will need to find one of those nasty Lexis-Nexis type thingies to read this piece written by one of your civil libertarian brethren. You are fan of Mr Hentoff I assume??

And Makhno, do feel free illustrate Mr Hentoff's penchant for reasoning with canards here.

I read your "analogies" and give you my award for truth-in-advertising. You're absolutely correct. Not only is your analogy tedious, it's "prattle". I know I can always count on you.

Fruit prattle.

More "tedious" analogies if interested.

It was an interesting juxtaposition, and that is why I mentioned it as simply that. In the article it also mentioned other countries that trade with Iran so I didn't single out France.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the typographical error I made. I also omitted the apostrophes from the two instances of let’s. I think I’ll open a vein.

Can you help me with another grammar problem? Is it more correct to say: "bugger off" or "sod off"?

Neither did InterFax at first, not it is one of the leading news organizations in the East. It started out as a typewritten daily sent by fax to other news organizations. I had a friend who would forward it on to me. We were really into 14.4Kbps fax modems at the time.

One could do a whois and perhaps ring up or email Sara Rajabi in France or drop an email to the address on the about us page.

When I got my MLS were were taught about research so perhaps you could have found information about this execution on the Chicago Sun Times or perhaps Amnesty International UK's site.

As the Gipper said, trust but verify.

Oh, and the article about France carried a NYT byline.

Crap another one of those typographical errors, and I proofread this one. NOW InterFax is....

Can't blame me for this one blame the Jamie.

By the way, where were the Irish during World War II?

Apples and oranges, to use an old American folksaying. Using "Dred Scott" is a tedious canard. You may want to try for something a little better...perhaps even "precious".

Kinda like Spain and Portugal. They were ummmm neutral. ;)

Prattle.

"Gee, you think maybe military misadventurism and the mass murder of 11 to 15 thousand civilians -- and all that based on a tissue of lie -- somehow strikes us as not necessarily the best response? I mean, I've only been harping on that everytime you intimate that you have some kind of divine right to kill anybody who gets in your way. "

You keep mentioning the mass murder Fang. Step up and stop us.

Always glad to be of help to you, Tomeboy, in your continuing odyssey.

"When hunting monsters, one must take care not to become the monster. --Nietzsche "

The point here Fang is that Canada is not 'hunting' at all. To complain about something you truly believe to be horrific and then to do nothing is asinine. You talk about arrogance of power, but if that were true we wouldn't have bothered with 14 U.N. resolutions and Congressional approval. How about the Arrogance of Intellect, those who think they are so much smarter then everyone else but choose not to offer alternatives or to get their hands dirty implementing those alternatives?

As for the whole 'sensitive' speech? You call yourself Fang Face and I'm supposed to treat you sensitively? Poor Fang.

Group hug for Fang!

Tomeboy, regarding abortion: because of Nat Hentoff's arguments, I have for some time been examining my own beliefs regarding that issue. So for now, our mutual agreement is being considered. Fair enough? And, for now, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt regarding racism.

Patterns in the Socioeconomic Characteristics of Women Obtaining Abortions

Really, Tomeboy, you have to start actually reading the things you look up. That article only supports my contention that abortion provides an avenue out of the poverty trap. If it doesn't, then you'll have to cite which parts you think support your position. But for Chris' sakes don't expect me to do your homework for you and come up with answers you're going to like.

Now what do you say we extend our agreement to the in utero girls with voices yet to be heard?

Makhno might, but I wouldn't, because those in utero children already have people speaking for them that the Republican National Guard and the ultra-conservative slavers are silencing. These are the voices that advocate birth control so that unwanted pregnancies do not occur in the first place. These voices are forbidden to promote any program that would make abortion unnecessary. It is the ultra-conservatives themselves that are creating conditions in which abortion rates will rise. A very pretty vicious circle. Really puts the polish to the term: dogmatic.

The answer to abortion is to come up with a form of birth control that is as close to 100% reliable as humans can make it, and then make sure everybody knows about it and has access to it. The ultra-conservatives won't allow that, and then they'll turn around and won't allow abortion, and both of these stemming from the blind and wilfull ignorance of the fact that Abstinence-only is pitifully ineffective.

Alas, Fang...I said I was considering it. This is because I do take Nat Hentoff seriously. I am curious how Tomeboy feels about Hentoff's views regarding John Ashcroft. Mr.Ashcroft, though not advocating the executions of young women who have sharp tongues, has political and theological views which would give the late Khomeni pause.

Fang does make a good point regarding birth control. Every time "pro-life" activists (yes, Tomeboy! I know! A loaded word, "activists"!) introduce legislation in my state to limit abortions, there are usually additional amendments to limit birth control (and sometimes an extra or two, such as a flag protection clause or having English as the official state language). This kind of thing does not serve "pro-life" advocacy well.

Don’t blame Jesus Christ for your words Fang.

You said Then ask yourself how society is going to deal with those 800,000 indigents who will be acculturated, living in squalor, and a number of whom will turn to crime, drugs, and domestic violence as a way of venting their frustration and impotence, twenty-years from now.

You didn’t say 80,000, 8000, 800, 80 or 8. Your number was 800,000, thus implying ALL aborted children deserve to die because they come from welfare sucking mothers.

Among other things here’s what the article says:

  • Increased efforts are needed to help both adolescent women and adult women of all economic statuses avoid unintended pregnancies.
  • About one-quarter of women obtaining an abortion were covered by Medicare. (Not 100%)
  • In 2000, only 13% of white mothers who had an abortion were at the federal (US) poverty level, 49% for black mothers and 33% for Hispanic mothers. (Again, not close to 100%).

    So now that I have established that not all 800,000 aborted children will become parasites of the state, your cost/benefit formula needs revisiting. Because vagaries are the tools of the lazy man's logic, perhaps you would care to put a price tag on those children better off dead? A hard number Fang.

    Feel free to ask for Christ’s help with this.

  • The answer to abortion is to come up with a form of birth control that is as close to 100% reliable as humans can make it, and then make sure everybody knows about it and has access to it.

    Free birth control is a plentiful as free condoms. Planned Parenthood gives this stuff out like SweetHearts at Halloween.(we all know what is 100% effective but that would carry the unrealistic expectation of discipline and self-respect for all those poor mothers.) As for your panacea, the Pill has a 99.5% effectiviness rate. Of course this assumes the tablets are actually swallowed on a daily basis.

    Regarding education, you have got to be kidding. Most middle-schoolers think of wallets rather than warfare when discussing Trojans.

    Point your finger at someone else. This knee-jerk reactionary isn't making reminder calls or unrolling rubbers for the irresponsible.

    Ah, yes, I see. The old, "time to fall back on absolutism" tactic to twist his arguments around, and never mind crafting a well reasoned argument by correcting the context.

    Really, Tomeboy, you only shoot yourself in the foot when you do this sort of thing.

    In any event, you did not formulate any argument using the article as a source, you simply cited the title. Hence: you refuted exactly nothing.

    I beg to disagree and submit your Maxwell Smart reasoning and failure to put a price on those thousands of aborted children from non-poor mothers.

    Perhaps a hole in your foot would make backpedaling a little more difficult?

    I do hope that you and I are in agreement that young girls being executed for merely speaking is inhumane, no matter what race, color, or creed.

    Absolutely.

    Now what do you say we extend our agreement to the in utero girls with voices yet to be heard? No matter what race, color or creed.

    For some reason, I believe your being offended is more than a little contrived, but I'll be sure to be more...sensitive...when replying to you. I'm sure you'll reciprocate. I do hope that you and I are in agreement that young girls being executed for merely speaking is inhumane, no matter what race, color, or creed.

    I take offense to your choice of the word "burning" to describe this issue.

    Oblige me with just two small Post-its , "Lynch" and "Crematorium".

    The point here Fang is that Canada is not 'hunting' at all.

    No, the point here is that we will not kiss your self-righteous, blood-lusting ass. If we are not with the U.S., it is because your pointy-headed little President Moron went out of his way to alienate those he could otherwise have counted on as an allies.

    Kudos, though, for pulling the same bullshit stunt Cheney did and misrepresenting the word "sensitive" by using it out of context.

    As for your mythical Arrogance of Intellect, I could as easily impute it to King George the Pathetic, in as much he thought he knew better than the U.N. weapons inspectors. At least the rest of the world, including Canada, was willing to look for alternatives. All Bush ever wanted was to go in there guns a blazing and kill anybody who stood between him and the oil he wanted for Halliburton.

    Because in any cost/benefit study between slavery and freedom, anti-abortion comes out costing too much.

    Nonsense, unless you don’t give a damn about those fortunate children today that eluded manual vacuum aspiration. Abortion policy is an economic disaster in the long run and socialists like you should be concerned.

    Ask any European friends how many Africans and middle-easterners they will need to join their work force to foot the bill for their socialized medicine, pension, and other assorted state-funded goodies. How Americans and Canadians will need to be well into their seventies to qualify for state-sponsored social security programs until they eventually become insolvent. Social services have always been “pay as you go� because politicians can't keep their mitts off any present day surplus. Workers today subsidize retirees today. You do the math. Now carry this out 20 years.

    …The effects of such a decline do not appear immediately; a generation must grow up for them to be fully felt. But even if European fertility rates were to return to 2.1 tomorrow - a virtual impossibility - Europe's current population of 727 million would still drop by 171 million by 2050. Since government welfare programs depend upon a steady inflow of tax money, few countries will have enough people by then to support such programs.

    (Health Canada inadvertently discloses facts Planned Parenthood would like to suppress� Report / Newsmagazine (Alberta Edition); 3/4/2002)

    Tomeboy, you have got to learn to think for yourself and stop blindly parroting the party line.

    Abortion policy is an economic disaster in the long run and socialists like you should be concerned.

    As usual, this is in diametric opposition to reality. It is lack of control over individual reproductive faculties that will create an economic disaster. Consider the case of that young woman you so sententiously preached about at your site. If she had been clued in to birth control and abortion, she would not now be trapped in a cycle of poverty. By aborting the second pregnancy, she could have finished her training and been in a position to improve the quality of life for her self and her first child. Including a better education for him.

    Now multiply that one "Welfare Mom" case by 800,000 a year and ask yourself where the government is going to get the money to foot that bill.

    Then ask yourself how society is going to deal with those 800,000 indigents who will be acculturated, living in squalor, and a number of whom will turn to crime, drugs, and domestic violence as a way of venting their frustration and impotence, twenty-years from now. By which time they will be producing the next generation of welfare bums.

    Alas, Tomeboy...I'm not a socialist (some good old-fashioned Red baiting?)...You make a good point regarding the economics, however far more telling is your concern about "Africans and middle-easterners". What next? "The Dusky Menace"?

    "No, the point here is that we will not kiss your self-righteous, blood-lusting ass"

    Again Fang, and again and yet again if we're so bad, so horrible, do something to stop us. Even if you don't have the military to stop us ask the UN to sanction us. Stop trading with us. Do all those things 'the world' wants to do when dealing with dictators. If these 'alternatives' are so effective then by all means, use them against us.

    Then ask yourself how society is going to deal with those 800,000 indigents who will be acculturated, living in squalor, and a number of whom will turn to crime, drugs, and domestic violence as a way of venting their frustration and impotence, twenty-years from now. By which time they will be producing the next generation of welfare bums.

    While your checking out the Hentoff article, free your mind and take a peek at this;

    "Patterns in the Socioeconomic Characteristics of Women Obtaining Abortions in 2000-2001" Perspectives on Sexual & Reproductive Health Sep/Oct2002, pg 226.

    You make a good point regarding the economics, however far more telling is your concern about "Africans and middle-easterners". What next? "The Dusky Menace"?

    Perhaps just my nerves, but I think your fixation on race parsing would be better served by handwritten Post-Its to yourself.

    You're absolutely correct. It's your nerves. As for my "fixation", I am confronted with the burning social issue of race in America on a daily basis and reminded that loved ones are in danger. "Post-it"s would merely add to clutter. But thanks for the thought.

    What you have failed to do is put the social cost to the 600,000 abortions among the poverty stricken you would forbid them to have. You have also failed to show how fetuses equate with fully developed human beings. The sticking point for Roe v: Wade, I believe.

    As to the 200,000 non-poor, I imagine a number of those were aborted by professional women who would have been plunged into financial straits by having to quit their jobs.

    As for the rest, it still comes down to a matter of personal choice whether you agree those choices or not. It's not your life, so it's none of your business.

    The U.N. charter.

    I feel sick. There is nothing that I can think to say except that I'm appalled at how quickly I forget that the world beyond my own little orbit is truly savage.

    What on earth could this "relgious judge" Rezai have meant when he said - after her execution that

    ..."her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her 'sharp tongue�

    ?!?!?!

    It's at times like these that I feel myself praying that there really is a judgement day...and then I try to stop myself from falling into that abyss.

    Your sentiment raises an interesting question.Is violence the only solution?

    No, we should't leave them alone. That's what diplomacy is for (just to clarify what I mean by "leave them alone", since I suspect we have different meanings for the phrase). You're lack of outrage concerning the business dealings with Iran, Pakistan and U.A.E is rather telling.

    with Iran? probably. In time the people there would have eventually changed things for the better but 1. not only has the Iranian gov't increased their nuclear activity they've basically come out and said "We're making a bomb, we're entitled to, f' off". Which means at some point Israel will bomb them if we don't and 2. part of the problems we've been having in Iraq stem from Iran stirring the pot. They are as much a part of the war on terror as Iraq and will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

    "You're lack of outrage concerning the business dealings with Iran, Pakistan and U.A.E is rather telling."

    Unlike Blake I don't think Halburton and the U.S. Government are one and the same. I guess I implied that with the 'our hands are dirty' bit, my mistake. American companies do bad things, big deal. I'm 100% for putting the presidents of those companies in jail for doing it, hell, if its bad enough just shoot'em.

    "They are as much a part of the war on terror as Iraq"

    So, they don't have WMD, they're not building WMD, their conventional army is pretty much useless, and they have no ties with Al-Queda?

    Or are we talking about a different Iraq here?

    As for North Korea: 2002 - North Korea offers the US a deal. The US refuses. 2004 - the US offers N Korea the same deal. North Korea refuses. Better use of diplomacy at the time would probably have been beneficial.

    So the fact that Cheney went from being CEO of Haliburton to vice-president of the US means nothing? And the fact that Haliburton was trading with Iran *at the time* that Cheney was their CEO means nothing?

    But hey, did you just call for someone to shoot the VPOTUS? Isn't that treason?

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