Microfilm Mishap Destroys Bush Military Records

Anonymous Patron writes "The New York Times reports that portions of the historical record concerning President Bush's military service were destroyed during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No paper backups could be located. Cf. Nicholson Baker, Double Fold: Libraries and the Assault on Paper (2001)."

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Bad Month

W can't get a break these days! I wish he'd just release all the documents regarding his time in the Guard. He's making it tough for people like me who don't believe in conspiracies.

Re:Bad Month

Why is he responsible for something that happened 30 years ago? He didn't write a book about it, he didn't testify before the Senate about it. He didn't base his political career on it. He did his time (flying jets mind you) and got out. End of story.

Re:Bad Month

Uh, . . . excuse me?

You are asking what it is that makes George Bush responsible for his own actions?

Or are you somehow assuming that he is not guilty for what he did because it was so long ago?

He dodged the draft; he deserted from his military service. Get over it.

And all indications are that he is now engaged in deliberate and willful efforts to cover up his malfeasance.

Re:Bad Month

Of course he's responsible for his actions but in this country one of our strengths are that you are innocent until proven guilty. Its not his responsibility to help everyone try and make a case against him especially something that long ago (exactly what do you think he has anyone? a diary? a paystub? what male keeps that crap?). I don't believe he dodged anything or did anything wrong but I don't feel the need to prove it because it has no bearng on today whereas Kerry has done nothing but rely on his own personal experience from that time and is running on it. His entire political career is based on a portable film recorder and 3 purple hearts that got him out in time to start his political career.

Oh and Fang, if you have such a problem with draft dodgers feel free to petition your own government to send back the American soldiers currently being held up there for deserting.

Re:Bad Month

What "male" keeps "crap" like a "paystub"?

Um, one who doesn't want to get in trouble if he's ever audited by the Internal Revenue Service?

Re:Bad Month

from 30 years ago? If its over 5 years old its gone.

Paper is not the answer

On July 12, 1973, a disastrous fire at NPRC (MPR) destroyed approximately 16-18 million Official Military Personnel Files. No duplicate copies of the records that were destroyed in the fire were maintained, nor was a microfilm copy ever produced. There were no indexes created prior to the fire. In addition, millions of documents had been lent to the Department of Veterans Affairs before the fire occurred. Therefore, a complete listing of the records that were lost is not available. - http://tinyurl.com/2nksm

I can't believe that someone would cite Baker around here and actually mean it.

Re:Bad Month

>from 30 years ago? If its over 5 years old its gone.

True. Good point.

Re:Bad Month

Its not his responsibility to help everyone try and make a case against him especially something that long ago (exactly what do you think he has anyone? a diary? a paystub? what male keeps that crap?).

Are you even sane?

We are talking about a criminal conspiracy to cover up a felony previously committed by your President, and which cover up involves the United States Armed Forces command structure. These were not pay stubs. These were Pentagon records.

You want innocent until proven guilty? Barr the Mouth-breather jumped all over Clinton and demanded his impeachment for lieing about getting sucked off in the White House. Where was all that self-righteous hysteria when Bush lied about his military service? When he lied about NBC Weapons? When he continues to lie to this day about the non-existent Al Qaida-Hussein link?

His lies have sent nearly 900 American servicemen so far to their deaths, he is directly responsible -- ethically, morally, and legally -- for the indiscriminate genocide of eleven to fifteen thousand Iraq innocents. He has screwed up the American economy so bad Republicans will be pissing about how Democrats can't get a grip on it for the next twenty years; the entire world holds the U.S. in utter contempt with the exception of that pantywaist Blair; and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, have been motivated by the invasion and occupation to engage in terrorism against the U.S.

Try telling your President Moron that the detainees at Guantanamo are innocent until proven guilty. He'd probably throw an apopletic fit given that the Supreme Court had to drive that notion into his beady, little head with a gavel. Try telling it to the American military controlling the court that is trying Hussein, who should be at the Hague. Try telling that to the tortured and dead of Abu Ghraib.

Your hypocrisy is redolent of a used Stridex pad.

I don't believe he dodged anything or did anything wrong but I don't feel the need to prove it because it has no bearng on today whereas Kerry has done nothing but rely on his own personal experience from that time and is running on it.

Oh, now this is so totally fucking stupid.

Kerry did not dodge the draft and went to Viet Nam, and you interpret that as having a bearing on what he is doing now, but Bush's truncated service in the Air National Guard had no bearing on that bullshit photo-op stunt he pulled on the Abe Lincoln to lie about "Mission Accomplished"?

Here's a clue: One of the principles of leadership is that you cannot ask anyone to do what you yourself will not or cannot do.

Bush wimped out of Viet Nam -- you don't have to believe the documentation, your living in denial does not alter reality -- and by dodging the draft he invalidated himself from ethically or morally ordering others to kill and be killed.

His entire political career is based on a portable film recorder and 3 purple hearts that got him out in time to start his political career.

Bush's political career is based on being an oil-business friendly incompetent. How much has Halliburton and the other corporate parasites sucked out of the public teat so far? Two hundred million? And Bush didn't start his political career until he apparently partied and snorted himself into brain damage.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with getting only three purple hearts and living to tell about it? Judging from the tone of that paragraph it sounds as if you'd rather he'd gotten a body bag.

Do you hate it that not enough democrats get killed in wars started by bloodlusting republicans?

Oh and Fang, if you have such a problem with draft dodgers feel free to petition your own government to send back the American soldiers currently being held up there for deserting.

Those are concientious objectors, not cowards who used political favour to get out of combat. They, at least, have enough courage from their convictions to give up their homes, families, and friends -- and in one case his military career -- to go into exile to avoid becoming or remaining executioners for the Bush regime. Of course, being a good little drone of that regime, you can't possibly understand what it might mean for an American citizen and serviceman to beg the government of Canada for shelter as a refugee. You can't possibly see how a patriot who would and has put his ass on the line for his family, friends, and country could become so disillusioned with his government because you are not a patriot.

Or are you going to sign up to go oversees to "defend" America? Michael Moore has some extra enlistment forms to give away. None of your congresscritters would take them to enlist their children.

Or are you waiting for the draft to be reinstated? And if it is reinstated, what then? Shall I keep a light on for when you show up at the border?

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands of those who feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen --Samuel Adams

Re:Bad Month

Wow, Fang you have finally gone off the deep end. I thought you at one time made reasoned debate, but now it has devolved into rhetoric and vitriol. That's really too bad. It was interesting to read your commentary several months, even several weeks ago. I realize you feel strongly about the first Amendment, and have some other strong beliefs, but questioning the sanity of fellow LISNews posters, and calling the president a felon and conspirator in some grand cover up is really beyond the pale of rationality.

Come on, pay stubs, or records from 30 years ago. I'm lucky I can find last years cancelled checks (cheques for you Canadians :] ).

Re:Bad Month

I shred those the same day. I get an annual statement and so does the IRS. Why save pay stubs.

There is a conspiracy

From the article" It said the payroll records of "numerous service members," including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.


The administration that was in office during those years is the great conspirator. Somebody should investigate that administration. Lets see 1996 & 1997... Bill Clinton. Lets call Ken Starr!


There is no grand conspiracy.

records

I hope no one ever asks me for my pay records. Some I kept for years, then pitched, others surface from time to time from no where. How many other ex-servicemen can prove from their own paper trail their pay records?

Genealogists run into lost, damaged and destroyed records all the time. I tried for the records of an uncle who was killed in China in WWII and after about 2 months was told they are lost. Also haven't been able to get other things, like my mother's birth record because the court house in that county burned down in the 1920s.

Re:There is a conspiracy

had been ruined in 1996 and 1997

That's when they said it happened, not necessarily when it actually happened. If it had happened in '96 and '97, you'd think those people who had been asking for Bush's records would have been told about it from the start, but the destruction was only revealed when things starting getting serious. The timing of the announcement is too convenient, the destruction is too convenient, and Bush has a long history of censorship. And Clinton wouldn't have profited from the destruction of those records.

There is no grand conspiracy.

There are no NBC Weapons in Iraq that were developed by Hussein's programs. There is no Hussein-Al Qaida link. There are American occupiers and corporate rapists.

And Bush was wanting to invade Iraq even before the WTC attack. He used that for an excuse to commit genocide against 11 to 15 thousand Iraqi civilians. Although, I am willing to allow that that was just a side benefit for him and his corporate running dogs.

All that is beside the point, however. Bush dodged the draft. His name was magically catapulted to the top of a first-come-first-served list 500 names long, and then he just walked away from his National Guard service. And every effort to find out the truth about that since his first campaign has been obstructed.

Re:There is a conspiracy

Oh, and something else just occurred to me. Those records might very well have been destroyed in '96 and '97. There's a good chance that Bush would have been planning to announce his candidacy for President along about that time, and former President Big Daddy George could have pulled a few strings to have the records destroyed pre-emptively, knowing that Junior's service record would not survive scrutiny.

Somewhere

I can rely only on my own personal experience, but somewhere, as the U.S. military is a very large bureaucracy, there is a duplicate. It may be "lost" or "unavailable at this time" or "classified".

Re:Bad Month

These are not pay stubs, they are military records. You can get reliable military records back to the Civil War and before. Now what are the odds of a certain person's records from three decades ago just "disappearing?" Is it tinfoil hat to ask that?

I call the "resident" and his machinery dishonest and involved in a grand coverup. Bring it.

Re:Bad Month

greg, you ask what records he has, asking for a paystub. You were obvioiusly never in the military for they tell you to hang on to all your paperwork. I have been retired for almost six years now and I still have copies of all my pay records, including my first one.

Re:Bad Month

md,, the military doesn't give out annual statements they give the monthly statements and all military personnel are told to save them

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